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Hummer

Tuesday, February 2, 2010

Hairless Apes



Like a celt striking off a shard of flint, my dreams of pleistocene parentage have been somewhat dashed. No neanderthal free loaders will be showing up uninvited to crash the thanksgiving meal this year.  I posted the following question to the E M-35 phylogeny haplogroup project on the double helix website and received the attendant response:



azurebird
Nucleotide


Re: INFO: E1b1b1-Unclustered Group


I am new to the whole genetic pursuit and have some general questions. I am a jewish man, kit #167732, an E1b1b1*. I have the 25 marker test and am awaiting my 37 marker results. I only have one exact 12 marker match, possibly two. When I compare genetic matches in Y search, I find that the match 2v3rk, is shown as an unknown haplogroup as is the other unknown, 7bf8h, who happens to be a Cromagnon found in England 256/9. My wife thinks this accounts for my primitive table manners but I am serious. Ancestral State DNA is one thing, but this is beyond old school. Can you tell me anything about my cluster? Do I need deep sub-clade testing or will the 37 marker test be sufficiently indicative of the V business? There is another 8 marker test but the alleles are pretty downstream, y3jqw. Should I infer that I am of an unknown upper paleolithic sub clade? Ug.




UXGVH   Sommers   Plock, Poland    14   25   13   9   16   19   11   12   12   13   11   30   16   9   9   11   11   20   14   20   30   14   14   15   17    
7BF8H   cromagnon   256/9, England                                12                       9   9   11           14   20       14   14           11  (the cromagnon's available values got shifted upon pasting but they do match up identically with my alleles.)


Re: INFO: E1b1b1-Unclustered Group
« Reply #18 on: Today at 10:52:04 PM »
Quote
Hello and welcome to the forum.  


Your 8 out of 25 marker match with the haplotype labeled cromagnon in Ysearch is interesting but I don't think we can rush to make any conclusions until we know if these values come from a real sample and what does the cromagnon label mean?


Ysearch is now known to have a lot of made-up haplotypes and any matches you find there have to be taken with a grain of salt.  On the other hand, if you look for matches in our project's database you can be pretty sure that your near matches are indicative of a possible common ancestor.  Please go to the following page and in the genetic distance box (step 3) select 5 and then click the Show button (step 5)


http://www.haplozone.net (page deleted for privacy)


Among your near matches are several gentlemen who have been tested as M34 positive at 2 and 3 steps, which allows us to predict with a high level of certainty that your haplotype belongs to the same clade (E1b1b1c1*-D1) as them.  The D1 suffix attached is an in-house cluster designation developed by Elise, that help us to further classify or group similar haplotypes by their allele numbers.


So, to answer your question, I think your 37 marker upgrade will only confirm what we've seen so far and no deep clade test is necessary at this point.  Your wife can rest assured that indeed you're a modern 21st. century man.  Welcome again!


Victor


postscript: found another cromagnon sample with a lot of similarities tonight 2/3/10 Just a coincidence I am sure:

 Comparative y-DNA Results

User IDLast NameOrigin3
9
3
3
9
0
1
9
3
9
1
3
8
5
a
3
8
5
b
4
2
6
3
8
8
4
3
9
3
8
9
|
1
3
9
2
3
8
9
|
2
4
5
8
4
5
9
a
4
5
9
b
4
5
5
4
5
4
4
4
7
4
3
7
4
4
8
4
4
9
4
6
4
a
4
6
4
b
4
6
4
c
4
6
4
d
UXGVHSommersPlock, Poland 14251391619111212131130169911112014203014141517
CJWJ5Cro- Early Europeans900/9 Q and T across Western Europe and Americas, Italy 13101291114141415

 Comparative y-DNA Results


Postscript II 2/04/10 - got my 37 marker alleles back today. Dinosaurs and cavemen have sort of vaporized off my match chart like gorillas in the mist.  Have one exact match, a fella up in Seattle, all the way through all 37 markers.


In comparing 37 markers, the probability that ------- and Robert Sommers shared a common ancestor within the last...
COMPARISON CHART
GenerationsPercentage
483.49%
897.28%
1299.55%
1699.93%
2099.99%
24100.00%
The researchers have told me that there is no further need for deep clade testing. They are confident that I am an E1B1B1C1* D-1. As if you hadn't already guessed...

8 comments:

Sanoguy said...

Sounds to me that you are disappointed in not being anointed a Cromagnon guy. I suspect that Leslie is probably relieved!!!

Blue Heron said...

I am not giving up on my antediluvian roots. He thinks it unlikely but I have 12 more markers awaiting. As it stands now, I am until they prove I ain't. It comes down to tracking down the source who uploaded the results into Y search. An italian team published a paper I read this morning that said that a lot of the neanderthal dna had been contaminated by the researchers themselves. So there is that problem to surmount. There is also some information that the cromagnon may have all been seven footers and I can barely scrape the bottom of the net. But let me ask you - you ever watch me eat?

Sanoguy said...

We need to have lunch... I'll buy... I mentioned that a while back for another reason... but... I would like to see you eat!!! I am sure that would be a treat!!

Blue Heron said...

Mike, you are my friend. I don't think you have the stomach for it... Maybe when I get back from San Francisco we can all go to Rosa's. Dutch.

Sanoguy said...

I have a really strong stomach!!!! When we will you be back from SF?? We are off to Sunny Mexico next week!!!

Blue Heron said...

Following Tuesday - Have a great time down there. Where you going?

Sanoguy said...

We are flying to Puerto Vallarta and then driving about 30 miles north to meet up with some friends who are there for the winter. They are in a village called Lo de Marcos. They have a motor home and they are parked in an RV park right on the beach. We will be staying in a motel room at the park. He is an old surfer, as am I. I will be taking my board and, hopefully, the air temp will be in the mid 80s and water in the high 70s and the surf moderate. Delightful!!

Anonymous said...

Seattle Slew?